Nick B,

I bet you don't know whether to laugh or cry at this point.

Sean, I definitely support this forum as a place for relevant discussion,
but this is not an example of that - this is a simple macho-ego driven thing
as someone has pointed out.

The fact that the so called 'issue' has nothing to do with Bottle Domains
goes to prove my point. This is not a rational discussion about a relevant
point, it is a never ending diatribe about who gets the last word, with the
protagonists positions (or at least one of them) becoming more pompous and
irrelevant the deeper he digs to justify his ongoing posts.

IOW, a good, old fashioned, DNS list flame war.

I am interested to understand what you see as negligent in the .AU
namepsace, though, if you'd like to elaborate (and change the thread
subject).

And your political point about "me too" lending credibility to a point or
position is very relevant in an online context, because that sort of
consensus building can result in a clear picture of the 'will of the
market'.

Larry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Finn [mailto:sean.finn§ozservers.com.au] 
> Sent: Monday, 21 March 2005 11:44
> To: dns§dotau.org
> Subject: RE: [DNS] Reseller alleges theft of $730 by 
> Registrar [was] [DNS] Bottle Domains - transfer issues URGENT 
> HELP PLease.
> 
> 
> Now that's a fair set of statements.
> 
> 
> 
> Simple fact is that some parts of .au are negligent, and this 
> list is probably the most appropriate forum to air out those 
> grievances.
> 
> 
> 
> *WE* as participants and active players in the .au namespace 
> should also be able to air out our concerns without fear of 
> persecution.
> 
> It is of great concern to me that this kind of thing would 
> happen at a registrar level, but also quite believable. The 
> best approach however is not to tie up the individual and 
> make them prove themselves. The best approach is to wait for 
> other stories saying 'yep me too', or 'no way, they have 
> always dealt me the benefit of the doubt'.
> 
> The collective balance of good vs bad will therefore swing 
> the true public opinion, and if it IS a load of crap, or an 
> isolated incident, will be perceived as such as noone else 
> has come forward.
> 
> *At the same time*
> 
> Its good to see you sticking up for a registrar that you use, 
> and recommend highly with such strong feelings. (They must 
> really look after you).
> 
> 
> So we have one for Bottle Domains, and two against Bottle 
> Domains. (Initial grievance + reseller grievance akin to 
> saying 'here here' / 'me too ' / 'heres my story').
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone ELSE have any Bottle Domains stories, good or 
> bad? (I don't have any experience with either way).
> 
> 
> -Sean
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: info§australianwebsites.com 
> [mailto:info§australianwebsites.com] 
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:27 PM
> To: dns§dotau.org
> Subject: Re: [DNS] Reseller alleges theft of $730 by 
> Registrar [was] [DNS] Bottle Domains - transfer issues URGENT 
> HELP PLease.
> 
> Sean,
> 
> As I stated
> 
> "A 2nd reason for the discussion was that apathy ( not 
> seeking the facts ) in the light of an extremely serious type 
> of allegation would make this list and the domain industry 
> appear negligent in the face of such an issue alleged by Adam."
> 
> As one of the participants in the domain industry in 
> Australia, I would prefer to continue working in an industry 
> which I hope is held in generally fairly high regard by the 
> general public, not one which came to be seen  as one which 
> ignored allegations of theft of money by a Registrar without 
> any of its participants inviting the facts, if any, of the 
> allegation to be provided.
> 
> Thats an important "gain" for myself and the majority of 
> people working in the domain industry, both TLD's and .au + 
> all the resellers for Planet Domain like myself who have 
> never had any money stolen from them by Planet Domain, and in 
> fact I personally have always found the ethics of Planet 
> Domain to be of an impeccable standard.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Barry Armstrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Sean Finn 
>   To: dns§dotau.org 
>   Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:34 PM
>   Subject: RE: [DNS] Reseller alleges theft of $730 by 
> Registrar [was] [DNS] Bottle Domains - transfer issues URGENT 
> HELP PLease.
> 
> 
>   I think this now becomes a matter between the reseller and 
> the registrar. If
>   the registrar wishes to pursue it further, they can in court.
> 
>   One really has to ask, what do YOU have to gain, or what 
> does .AU have to
>   gain by this conversation?
> 
>   -Sean
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: info§australianwebsites.com 
> [mailto:info§australianwebsites.com] 
>   Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:31 PM
>   To: dns§dotau.org
>   Subject: [DNS] Reseller alleges theft of $730 by Registrar 
> [was] [DNS]
>   Bottle Domains - transfer issues URGENT HELP PLease.
> 
>   Edwin,
> 
>   I have renamed this thread to
>   "Reseller alleges theft of $730 by Registrar"
> 
>   which I probably should have done earlier.
> 
>   Any discussion of relevance to the original thread posted by Jim
> 
>   seeking help on a domain issue is of miniscule importance compared
> 
>   to the allegation of theft that was made by Adam against an
> 
>   accredited Registrar.
> 
>   The main point of the discussion was to invite the facts of this
> 
>   claim, if any, to be presented so that after seeing the 
> original allegation
> 
>   of theft by Adam we could all make an informed judgement on
> 
>   the truth or otherwise of the claim.
> 
>   A 2nd reason for the discussion was that apathy ( not 
> seeking the facts )
> 
>   in the light of an extremely serious type of allegation 
> would make this list
>   and the
> 
>   domain industry appear negligent in the face of such an 
> issue alleged by
>   Adam.
> 
>   AS I STATED TO ADAM EARLIER  ( copy below )
> 
>   As you were the one who raised the extremely serious issue / claim
>   of theft by an accredited registrar
> 
>   "where they took credit that YES I was rightfully entitled 
> to and now
>   they won't reinstate".
> 
>   and spelt YES in capitals to apparently emphasise your 
> indignation at
>   this stated theft, I would have thought that at the very least you
>   would have reported this to the relevant authorities.
> 
>   I was hoping we would see as much specific facts as possible
>   from yourself in support of your allegations.
> 
>   If not a single participant in this list had bothered to make the
>   effort to invite you to provide more information to support your
>   very serious allegation of theft by a Registrar, this list and the
>   domain industry would be seen in a very bad light indeed by the
>   general public.
> 
> 
>   Regards
>   Barry Armstrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: tenty§lanmadness.net 
>     To: dns§dotau.org 
>     Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:41 PM
>     Subject: [DNS] RE: Adam/Barry Flame war [was] [DNS] 
> Bottle Domains -
>   transfer issues URGENT HELP PLease.
> 
> 
>     At the risk of being dragged into this flame war of 
> posts, I will ask
>   people to
>     stop growling at each other and let the bone go. Here's my 2c...
> 
>     It seems to be clear that Trent is correct in all of this.
>     Adam has stated his discontent for Planet.
>     Barry has backed the service he has from Planet.
> 
>     I fail to see the relevance in the link, although, not 
> having listened to
>   the
>     real audio interview (because i refuse to install real 
> audio on a slow
>   P133
>     laptop and the work computer doesn't allow real audio 
> streams though the
>     firewall), I don't know what went on.
> 
>     Don't take this as a personal attack however, I just am 
> merely stating the
>   fact
>     of your average computer user.
> 
>     I can see the point in Adam not taking legal action in 
> the $500+ as it
>   would
>     probably cost just as much in legal fees. But I can see 
> how this could be
>     warranted as a "serious" allegation against a company. As 
> Trent correctly
>     pointed out however, if you don't like a place, don't shop there.
> 
>     Lets bring this thread to a close now shall we? as the 
> morel of the story
>   is:
>     Everyone's had more than their 2c worth.
> 
>     Cheers
>     -Edwin
> 
> 
>     Quoting info§australianwebsites.com:
> 
>     > As I pointed out a new and extremely serious issue / allegation
>     > was initiated by Adam on this list.
>     >
>     > Re - relevance: Perhaps someone should have updated the
>     > subject of the thread as it was in fact a new issue and
>     > allegation raised by Adam which as far as I could see had
>     > no relevance at all to the original post by Jim.
>     >
>     > Re - "2. False accusation? You posted the link."
>     >
>     > You accused me of
>     >
>     > "and digging up articles on the poster"
>     >
>     > which had no basis in truth whatsoever.
>     >
>     > See post by Glenn on the 20th March 2005.
>     >
>     > If you don't think thats not a false accusation
>     > what do you think is?
>     >
>     > PS. I am quite content to see your definition of a 
> false accusation
>     > without replying to it, and I definitely won't be, 
> regardless of how
>     > innacurate it may be.
>     >
>     > So the last reply is all yours if you want it.
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards
>     > Barry Armstrong
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   ----- Original Message -----
>     >   From: trent§sos.net.au
>     >   To: dns§dotau.org
>     >   Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:07 PM
>     >   Subject: Re: [DNS] Bottle Domains - transfer issues 
> URGENT HELP
>   PLease.
>     >
>     >
>     >   1. I'm not a supporter of anyone in this ongoing 
> flame war. Adam may
>     >   have thanked me, that's his choice, I wasn't praising 
> him by any
>     >   stretch.... I don't support his post on the list 
> either. If I have a
>     >   problem with a registrar, or any business I purchase 
> from, I take my
>     >   business elsewhere, it's that simple.
>     >
>     >   2. False accusation? You posted the link. It doesn't 
> matter who held
>   the
>     >   interview, who typed the original or who edited it 
> and submitted it
> on
>     >   that site. You posted it on this list. I didn't 
> "accuse" you of
>     >   anything, I was trying to point out that if you 
> ignored the post you
>     >   felt was irrelevant, it would go away. Instead you 
> have given it
>     >   strength by continuing to drag it along. The only sad 
> thing is you
>   can't
>     >   see that. The last word is all you are interested in, 
> like a dog
>     >   worrying a long stripped bone.
>     >
>     >   Hell, if you had stuck to your thought about 
> irrelevance I WOULD
> have
>     >   been applauding... and it would have been YOU I was 
> applauding!
>     >   I doubt you would complain then. No, it's obvious 
> that the last word
>   is
>     >   all you are interested in, like a dog worrying an aged, long
> stripped
>     >   bone. It's a shame you didn't stick to your guns, 
> such is life.
>     >
>     >   Don't worry you can have the last word on this, as I 
> know you are
>     >   busting to do so. I unlike you, won't be replying to 
> this thread as
>   the
>     >   original fellow is no doubt in discussions with the 
> pleasant people
> at
>     >   Bottle Domains, who, although I don't have a business 
> relationship
>   with
>     >   them, I would recommend their personnel to anyone 
> from previous
>   experience.
>     >
>     >   P.S. Unnamed? I've noticed that OPSM have great deals 
> on glasses.
>     >
>     >   info§australianwebsites.com wrote:
>     >
>     >   >To Adam I meant.
>     >   >
>     >   >I was not aware at the time that Adam had an un 
> named supporter
>     >   >who would make a false accusation.
>     >   >
>     >   >Copy below.
>     >   >
>     >   >Re - your email "digging up articles on the poster"
>     >   >
>     >   >It was actually in fact
>     >   >
>     >   >Glenn Powell who had the initiative to do some 
> research and managed
>     >   >to find and post the link
>     >   >
>     >   >http://www.abc.net.au/westernplains/stories/s1161799.htm
>     >   >
>     >   >in his post on the 20th March 2005.
>     >   >
>     >   >Its nice to see that at least one other member of 
> this list has the
>     > initiative
>     >   >to do some research and try to see some actual facts 
> when a serious
>     > allegation
>     >   >is raised, and if you read the article at
>     >   >
>     >   >http://www.abc.net.au/westernplains/stories/s1161799.htm
>     >   >
>     >   >I don't think anyone could accuse Glenn of having 
> posted a link to
> an
>     > article
>     >   >of a defamatory nature.
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >PS. As I am quite busy this will be my last reply to you too.
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >Regards
>     >   >Barry Armstrong
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >  ----- Original Message -----
>     >   >  From: trent§sos.net.au
>     >   >  To: dns§dotau.org
>     >   >  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:18 PM
>     >   >  Subject: Re: [DNS] Bottle Domains - transfer 
> issues URGENT HELP
>   PLease.
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >   >  ...
>     >   >
>     >   >  info§australianwebsites.com wrote:
>     >   >
>     >   >  >...actually I am quite busy, ...so this will be 
> my last reply.
>     >   >  >
>     >   >  >
>     >   >  >Regards
>     >   >  >Barry Armstrong
>     >   >  >
>     >   >
>     >   >
>     >
>  
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