DNS: Re: [Oz-ISP] Open Public Process - Sure.

DNS: Re: [Oz-ISP] Open Public Process - Sure.

From: Adam Todd <at§ah.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:09:42 +1000
>Get a life, Adam. Its just a mailing list. You, the person solely
>responsible for the creation of the new DNS list due to your actions on the

No Simon.  This isn't quite true.

>old one, a list created entirely to produce a space free of your negative
>influences, should try to actually realise the implications of that, and
>shut the hell up.   

Negative?  Boy warm me up a little more and I'll post the email thread that
took place some months back where I submitted suggested names for
participants for the ADNA board and someone (who I won't name until the
thread is posted) called the list "Less than Useless."

Maybe It's time I let the people from that list of names really see where
they stand.

Do you recall the list by any chance?

If I'm the only person who could cause this action, then clearly there is a
lot of fear from the "members" in that I might actually influence people.

>That's probably a national first.

Actually, you should consider the HANSON factor.  As much as I'd hate to be
compared as such, the discussion around here of late has been just that.
The Hanson factor is a clear example of what happens when you do behave
like a school yard bullie.

Perhaps I should contact One Nation - I'm sure they'll love to get involved!

Boy will that upset your peace!

>Anyone other than you and some of your noisy mates are welcome, most
>welcome, to subscribe to the new DNS mailing list and see for yourself what

This isn't true.  I really get tired of liars.

>is happening there.  Please come prepared to THINK and hopefully to
>PARTICIPATE.

Maybe I'll just arrange for it to be approriatly archived so all can
participate.  Should I see if any of the participants of the old list wodl
be willing to reflect the new list?

>Don't let Adam do your thinking for you, his conspiracy theories are
>wearing tremendously thin at this point. 

That's right, dont let me do your thinking, but do consider the
implications of being a SHEEP in a crowd and letting this group do your
thinking for you.

A Group that has "respectable people" who think that their local DNS server
has all the answers aroudn the world.  A group that has people who state
very wild facts to the media and slink away making legal threat but taking
no action.

SHEEP tend to follow a leader.  Hope your chosen SHEEP isn't a Wolf :)

>A new list was created since the existing dns mailing list was full of
>noise to the extent that it swamped the signal. And everyone who felt like

Actually this isn't true.  The swamping of "noise" as you call it was
mostly from a small number of members of the orignal list who seem to take
great delight in running concentric questions and flaming me - non stop.
Each time I made a constructie comment - and there were quite a few - I got
twenty replies from people who clearly didn't read the comments.

There are only so many times you can ask WHY? to every statement made.

And there are only so many private replies you can answer before you relise
there are more people watching than speaking.  Funny how the private
replies are nearly always so supportive and informative.

>it, voluntarily chose to leave Adam to his rantings in the old list and
>join the new list, free of his noise.

Again not altogether true.  A number of members decided a CLOSED and
RESITRICTED LIST would better represent the membership and that by causing
more stir and noise and laying a blame towards one single individual
(remember it takes two people to create a thread) woudl be able to convince
most to ignore the one.  Thus anyone who had a diverse or altering opinion
would be easily excluded.

Of course if you only want to talk about what the leader talks about, then
PLEASE join the list and become a Cockatoo. "ADNA want's the D N S CRAARQUE"

>Really quite an amazing result, and a
>victory for the individual's right to be free of the idiot fringe. Noone
>was compelled to do so, they all did so of their own free will.

Yes, and the "ALL" consists of around 20 odd people all with STRICT
COMMERCIAL internests in DNS.  Anyone to date representing the public has
been slamed, whammed and flamed.

>So we have not censored Adam, we have simply chosen not to listen to him,

But you have censored me.  I can not join the list.  My name is clearly
shown in the rules.

Shall I requote your words for you (and as quoted by you)- why not:

--------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:21:21 +0900
From: Simon Hackett <simon&#167;internode.com.au>
Subject: [Oz-ISP] INET: New DNS List

See below. Anyone interested in the DNS in Australia might be interesting
in reading and considering the following message.

[note: If people think that a new 'aussie-isp' list with similar rules
would also be a good idea, I'm happy to volunteer to operate that one (to
spread the workload around a bit)]

Simon

>Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:25:34 +0800
>From: Michael Malone <mmalone&#167;creole.iinet.net.au>
>Subject: INET: New DNS List
>
>The national dns mailing list has become frustratingly useless for
>its intended purpose.  Given the current efforts of NOIE to foster
>a new process for consultative management of *.AU, a forum is
>required for discussion of the Australia DNS structure and future.
>
>I have created a new mailing list:
>
>	dns&#167;waia.asn.au
>
>You may subscribe to this list by sending the word "subscribe" to
>
>	dns-request&#167;waia.asn.au
>
>This is not a moderated list, but it has a few standard
>restrictions:
>
>o Only people subscribed to the list may send email to the list
>o No attachments/encoded postings
>o No more than ten messages per participant per day
>o No Adam Todd
>

---------------------------------------------------------------


Clearly you support this kind of censorship and expression of the lack of
free speech.

>each of us as individuals, and have created a new Adam-free space to take
>up our discussions. 

Yet agian you mention my name.

>But I say again: everyone (else) is welcome on the new DNS list if you feel

ELSE. Indicating an exclusion.    

If people who are going to lead are going to exclude, they dont make great
leaders.  Do they?

Why would any public member want to join a list where they will only hear
half or less than half of the whole story??

So they can be lead?  I hope there areally aren't that many SHEEP on these
lists.

>an interest in monitoring and/or contributing to discussions amongst
>rational adults for the purpose of advancing discussion and proposals
>related to the governance of the domain name system in Australia. The list

See yet again - you are claiming "Governance" when you have NO AUTHORITY to
do so.  You are claiming to be "In control" and "of authority".

So come on Sheep, head towards WA!

>isn't especially empowered with anything other than the presence of many
>good people.

Who are discussing Governance in an authoritive manner without having the
authority to do so :)

>I expect and hope that an outcome of the presence of this list
>will be useful governance proposals that everyone, even Adam, will be free
>to read and comment on. Some truly great people are participating in that
>list right now. 

I'm happy to read.  I certainly don't see too many truely great people.
Only those interested in their non public interests.

>>http://lists.waia.asn.au/list/dns
>>
>>It's claimed by the "people" (WAIA? Hmm) running this mail list that it's
>>OPEN to all the public for observation and comment.
>
>The above URL makes no such claim.  You're seeing spots on a blank wall
>again, Adam. There is a web archive in the works but it isn't ready yet.

It's password protected.  It's not open to the PUBLIC.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------
>The intent of the list is to provide a constructive forum for the
>discussion of the *.AU name space, and other issues of specific
>interest to the Australian DNS community.  I'd encourage interested
>parties and stakeholders to subscribe, so that we have a useful
>method of communicating on this important issue.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm an interested Party and a Stakeholder.  I am also a representative of
the public.

>>Does not entail confidence of an OPEN and PUBLIC process.
>
>It is open to any mature adult to participate. You have proven yourself to
>be something other than a mature adult, which is precisely why that list is
>blocked to you, in particular.

Then it's not open to all intereted parties and stake holders. only those
who agree with YOU.  

You must remember, that again, it was you and a number of others who took
it upon yourselves to constantly harass me enmass in bulk.  Overall you
guys crumbled and ran away.  I and many others are still here to play.

>>Where discussion, on HOW YOUR DNS system and YOUR DOMAIN NAMES will be
>>administered, is taking place?
>
>It's a free country, Adam. Any group of people that feels like having a new
>discussion can form a new mailing list and do so. A group feels that way,
>and has done so. 

And has invited interested parties and stakeholders, but doesn't allow them
in.  That's pretty good.

>person outside and make them stay out. Guess what - you've thrown too many
>peanuts, mate. Meanwhile, everyone else who is prepared to act with decorum
>is welcome to be there. 

Shame, I dont like peanuts, so it's not me throwing them.

>>Would YOU VOTE for it?
>
>For what? No proposal exists to date. If a proposal is ultimately created

You have to be kidding.  ADNA was about ready to take over.  Stephen Baxter
resigned in Feb from the Board of ADNA after 48 hours of endless email
asking him if his COMPANY - a PROFIT interest - would gain from ADNA by
means of beomcing a registry whilst he was on the Board.

He resigned.  Because he wasn't prepared to put forward a statement
indicating his company whilst he was a part of the board or for two years
after he left the board of ADNA woud not in any way profit or venture into
the Domain Name Market under the hand of ADNA.

>by a group of my peers that has some relationship to the DNS system in this
>country, and I respect that proposal, then I will give it due
>consideration, yes.

Gosh we really need to make a few of the lists available by web don't we?
People really need to see how pathetic some of the people you "respect" are.  

>So should you. The government (in the form of the
>National Office for the Information Economy) is taking notice.

Hmm, yes, they are. They seem to be fairly convinced who the stakeholders
are.  Funny how it always seems to be the same VERY SMALL GROUP of people.
And when that group gets any opposition it's starts enmass harassing the
opposition hoping it will go away.  

I hope other ISPs who are concerned about how their DNS is managed will
take notice and start listening.

>In fact, most people who are interested in these issues (and that's less
>people than you might imagine, Adam, not more) are in favour of the
>existence of this new list. 

That's very correct Simon.  LESS PEOPLE.  Because the people who are
showing interest are there not for the benefit of the DNS, but the benefit
to the profits of their companies and the status they will gain from
selling domain names.

>Will the operators of THIS mailing list (aussie-isp) PLEASE take a leading
>role here and filter Adam out of the list, or do we have to demonstrate in
>two lists, not just one, how unwelcome he is, by my creating a new
>aussie-isp mailing list somewhere else, and inviting people to leave Adam
>alone in this mailing list as well? If you like the kudos of running this
>list, protect its very existence, right now. 

Simon, you mean to say you really can't handle me?  A single person, who
holds his own very well against the pathetic circular repetition of the
WHY? Question.  Time to start showing how cyclic some of the discussion has
been.

Sheesh.
Received on Fri Jun 26 1998 - 00:35:53 UTC

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